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Is Property Theft? | Dr Robert Murphy | The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast – S4: E43 – ข้อสอบ จิตวิทยา เพื่อ ชีวิต สมัยใหม่.
This episode was recorded on May 19th 2021.
Dr. Robert P. Murphy is an Austrian School economist, Research Fellow at the Independent Institute, and Senior Fellow at the Mises Institute.
This episode of The Jordan Peterson Podcast covers topics such as value, free trade, private property, and minimum wage laws. They also dedicate time to discuss the specialization of individual tasks, interest rates, the Business Cycle, and more engrossing matters.
Being the author of multiple books, from Lessons for the Young Economist to The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism, Dr. Murphy does not hold back with his economic and political discussions. He continues to highlight his views in his other book, Choice: Cooperation, Enterprise, and Human Interaction, which is a modern distillation on the school of Austrian economics.
Dr. Murphy’s Book: “Choice: Cooperation, Enterprise, and Human Action”
Dr. Murphy’s bio:
Independent Institute
Dr. Murphy’s website:
[00:00] Introduction[0:18] Jordan Peterson introduces Dr. Robert Murphy.
[2:30] Learning about the Austrian school of economics.
[6:00] The basics of Austrian economics by Ludwig von Mises is distilled in Murphy’s book ‘Choice’. Robert outlines the basic building blocks of this economic system.
[11:30] Theories of Value, Marginal Utility, Utility, Labor.
[17:00] Why should average people care about how economics works?
[19:30] Will raising the U.S. minimum wage hurt or help young people?
[27:00] The practical price paid for increasing the minimum wage / interfering with the free market setting pricing in general.
[35:30] Mises’ ideas in the Austrian view of economic structures.
[46:00] Relating different parts of the economy from the perspective of Austrian economics and Marxist communism/socialism.
[54:00] Does specialization maximize productivity? Is free trade beneficial to all?
[1:08:30] Discussing the idea that private property is theft, What rights do we as individuals need to own. Defining what it means to own something.
[1:25:30] The distributed supercomputer of the free market that allows complex communication through price.
[1:33:30] Is the power to make investments and society shaping decisions spread over a net of rich people or in the hands of the state?
[1:38:30] Claims of systemic racism from an economic perspective or the consequences of irrational prejudice in a free market economy.
[1:46:30] Equating value to price. Tracking liabilities and assets.
[1:50:00] Introducing The Business cycle.
[2:03:00] Confronting the possibly morally problematic idea of inherited wealth.
[2:15:00] Finally finding our way to business cycle theory.
[2:23:00] Looking at privatized versions of commodities formerly believed to only be possible through some form of central planning or government. Bitcoin, eBay, Uber
[2:30:00] Wrapping up the episode
Visit www.jordanbpeterson.com to view more information about Jordan.
Jordan B. Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, a clinical psychologist, and the author of the multi-million copy bestseller 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, #1 for nonfiction in 2018 in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, the Netherlands, Brazil and Norway, and slated for translation into 50 languages.
Dr. Peterson has appeared on many popular podcasts and shows, including the Joe Rogan Experience and many more. Dr. Peterson’s own podcast has focused mainly on his lecture series, covering a great deal of psychology and historical content. Jordan is expanding his current podcast from lectures to interviews with influential people around the world.
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ขอแสดงความนับถือ.
I have schooling in economics and only stating due give context to frame the question. I am curious on your thoughts of the effect of minimum wage compared to average household income or as it relates to GDP.
ie. if minimum wage goes from say $15 to $16 an hour. I understand that either the the company has less employees, or they take less in terms of net profit. Curious to know not from inside of a company, but more so how it effects the economy as a whole.
Dr. Murphy, you mentioned you and your wife are considering buying chickens as a hedge for 'what is coming.' I'd really like to know what negative event you think is coming.
Jordan, I am really really hoping you can get Thomas Sowell on your program. That would be the ultimate interview for me, and I'm sure many other people. BTW, I'm a west coast Canadian.
the only question that matters to me is why are budgets so inefficient and inhumanistic
Kimchi I get a try t rttro b the the the thethe the the the the the the the the the the thethe there is a demon Lord I for t this at a gymn n r u for rt this at a gym to run to the store and for t this at a gym r get together
There wasn't a single mention of addressing inflation during the minimum wage discussion. Boo.
I don't think comparing chopping off peoples legs to make everything even is a valid comparison to taxing inherited wealth. It's more like if one person was born with a thousand legs and you could take half of them away to help hundreds of people who were born with none.
Adverts breaking the flow somewhat on my mobile device, will have to watch this later on a machine with adblock
If a nation’s ordinary citizen cannot own property, then politicians (law of the land) have made it illegal to do so…and that’s tyrannical. It’s really that simple.
So ironic hes against totalitarian regimes yet he supports the ideas that ultimately lead you there, e.g. private property. I think Jordan needs to reads about how the commons were used before reformation and Colonization. Property is theft. millions of people lived in community, taking care of land resources without private property. Private means to deprive others. Property is why we have hirarchy and corruption and dictatorships. Check out Elinor Ostrom's work for a critic of the false narrative of the tragedy of the commons that never existed, the only tragedy is that the commons were stolen from the people. Ostrom got a Nobel prize in economics, and Explains exactly why people fail or succeed in management of common resource pools. Peterson your stuck in a patriarchal paradigm, time to question beyond the mainstream narrative, otherwise your using your brain power of brainwashing yourself…. Perpetuating the same fallacy that hasn't changed for too long….
Selfish People Can’t Produce Unselfish Solutions
In Europe and elsewhere, governments are paying colossal sums to big corporations to help them avert bankruptcy. Whether they call it a “rescue package” or “quantitative easing,” in the end it’s all the same: the government pays companies to stay operative.
I don’t think it will work in the long run. It may keep companies afloat for another six months or a year, but as a rule, a government, any government, cannot sustain companies that cannot sustain themselves. In the end, the situation will blow up in a blast that will be worse than what it would have happened had the government let them fall naturally.
There is more to it than that. I don’t believe that a government can do anything good for its people. Civil servants, ministers, and deputy ministers always pull their own way and have their own interests in mind. Since everyone is inherently selfish, everyone has an ulterior motive that is not for the benefit of the public.
We cannot expect selfish people to do unselfish acts; it is like asking a tiger to become vegetarian. If it goes against nature and it won’t work. Therefore, asking people whose only focus is their own career to focus on other people’s well-being is unwise, unrealistic, and will invariably fail.
Socialists, capitalists, far right, or far left, they are all immersed in egoism. It is not their fault; it is human nature, and we should adjust our expectation from our leaders.
If we want a real and lasting positive change, we must transform human nature. Since our nature is selfish to the core, changing it is the only way out of the crises that the world is falling into nowadays. We will fall deeper and deeper until we realize that the problem is not the fuel we burn, the forests we cut, the water we pollute, or the people we kill. The problem is the cause of all those harms we are inflicting on nature and on each other: our inherent self-absorption. When we start working on changing ourselves rather than demanding everything and everyone else to change, we might be able to save ourselves before it is too late.
This is great, would love to see him back for both of you to dive more into these discussions. May I make a recommendation for Tom Woods? Dr. Peterson you've been on his show twice and would be great to hear you discuss more of these topics with him. Tom Woods is to history what Robert Murphy is to economics, basically essential.
To say that ownership prevents despoiling of the environment is a claim I cannot wrap my head around.
There are plenty of examples in history where nothing was owned by individuals and despoiling of the natural world did not occur for hundreds or thousands of years.
It is only in recent history for example that the amazon rainforest is being despoiled. To say that its because nobody owns it is ridiculous. It looks as though its because individuals with the gross idea of ownership of property and goods entered the scene from outside, and imposed their values.
Ironically, this happened in part because the place they came from was already being despoiled by their own ideas propriety and consumption, and their appetites led them to responsibly managed resources (by others) lying elsewhere.
After all your talk about establishing ‘meaning’ Mr Peterson, I find these talks about economics and accumulation of wealth to be mostly erroneous, and even trivial at times. But I’m trying to see what is so obvious about this connection that you have implied so often in lectures and books.
Does not borrowing or spending money that I don’t already have, having no credit history and not owning things make a person morally corrupt? I mean… since these 3 things are touted as pillars of virtue in context.
I am ambitious and creative. But money and propriety have never been my thing. JP has had a profound effect on my life. But this material is simply alien.
"Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone that sees what's going on? Read between the lines criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet."
And: no one owns the air we breathe, and that ist why every car driver feels entitled to pollute it.
what a magnificent guest!
There can be no personal independence whatsoever, without one's undisputed control over a certain amount of assets, be it 50 bucks or 50 skyscrapers
That's why property is protected even by the first ever written constitution ("Thou shalt not steal")
Whoever attacks property has actually his/her sights set on your freedom.
Jordan needs Thomas Sowell on before its too late.
Currency was originally issued privately. Bitcoin is simply a new (and deeply flawed) spin on how the financial system originally functioned. Interestingly, central banks and bank regulators were modelled on private banks and clearing houses. I guess imitation is the ultimate proof of concept!
Bitcoins success was undoubtedly and substantially aided by social media's rapid global proliferation.
Is this guy a bald Ted Cruz? He looks a bit, but sounds a lot more like Senator Cruz. LOL.
One can increase the wage to 300 per hour but one must also increase inflation and consumer price index as well, and one must print more paper bills. The net effect is more waste. Mandatory wage increases regardless of industry will induce the less skilled market to react and apply only to be fired. It creates a hole lotta shit, lets just say.
People should care about economic theory if such a people want to balance powers between themselves and increase their labor power if they only have labor to offer. That is a good first reason for knowing practical economics.
Misses is for the hardy reader. I claim that if no man or woman initiates a reading of a hard book as Misses' them: she is credited , infamously, to have aided, active unwitting agent, usher in the society that we have today.
Property wrongly taken or obtained is theft. Now, How does property-is-theft analogy play out: If you wife is your "property" in a loose sense, I may take your wife. In other words, if all property is theft, I can steal your wife since your wife is a product of theft anyway. If you don't like to use the wife analogy, substitute where you see "wife" with the word "house". Love the results? Right.
Marxists live in JP's head rent free. He's not even listening to Bob he just keeps trying to contrast it against communism.
Do lobbyists serve a useful purpose to the populace? Their existence points to assisting politicians to pick winners and losers … is that a good idea?